Curse

xenoranger · Jan 24, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Look at that.

Honestly, It's bugged me forever knowing that Animate Bone Minions has an icon that looks like spiders, but instead of animating bone spiders (which'd be much cooler - IMO), it animates a weaker version of horrors.

Honestly... I wish A-Net would've put a little more effort into this.

crimsonfilms · Jan 24, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Mountain out of mole hills.

Crystal Of Winter · Jan 24, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

yea I was hoping that it would be those things in the desert, jade scabs(sp?)

floppinghog · Jan 24, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

their not bone minions though... i think they just needed some other icon or something.. lol i too, would like to see spiders though (i felt the same way when i first got that skill long ago)

Plague · Jan 24, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

They probably were at some point, but ANet ran out of time or usable concepts, and started reskinning the "multi-horror" as scarabs, and decided to just use minions and horrors as standards.

I too wish horrors were worth using. But, at such a low level and at 25 energy, no, I won't use them. I would rather make one minion that has ranged attacks, more health, requires less attention than multiple horrors (less healing large groups) and more powerful attacks.

The only thing having multiple horrors is good for is being able to use transfer condition, damage and consume corpse skills so your army isn't eaten up. But, if you're creating an army properly, then you'll never need this aside from PvP. And in PvP... first, WHY are you being a dedicated MM in PvP. Secondly, if you are, you're either running a dedicated team build, so you don't need to be making horrors much to begin with, much less 25 energy ones that can't put a dent in your enemies or you're just being noobish and being a MM in random arenas. In that case, I'd say you have more problems on your hands, like your dead teammates, or why you're making minions to handle only 4 people that are either already dead or are too hard to kill to overwhelm with one minion at a time.

Bottom line, Horrors aren't exactly useful to begin with at 25 energy. In PvE, this is especially true since horrors group up and can't get out of AoE, which is the number one cause of failure of a MM in PvE.

Drop the energy cost to 15, raise the horrors' levels by two, even one and give them a natural health degeneration of -2 upon creation and we'll talk.

xenoranger · Jan 24, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Minions are my infantry. I should post some pics... some people actually enjoy watching my work. I usually have 20+ minions around me at all times (in most areas). It's funny b/c I often ask why we brought hench. I mean... 20+ minions @ lvl 13 are doing more damage than even the lvl 20 hench (in some areas). It's like I stated in another thread, the minions are actually more useful than horrors despite their level diff.
Consider that

minions offer 2 for 1 corpse
AI is more easily distracted by minions and less apt to attack party
minions do 3/4 the damage of horrors, but since there are 2 attacking at once, it's more like 6/4 the damage of horrors.
Mark of Pain + Minions (nuff said)
Minions + High Soul Reaping = Constant energy supply
Minions + Death Nova

I know you can do a lot of the same with horrors, but minions are better (IMO) b/c the numbers and the fact that you don't need a meat sheild when you have an undead army going before you.

Still... (On subject)
Jade Scarabs... jeez. All you need to do is make minions spider creatures and just give them bones for legs. Alternatively, you could alter the Fiends to have an extra set of legs (instead of teh headless/armless body) and use those. There are so many good ideas that weren't used for minons.

I love being a necro.. but I hate redunancy in bone creatures.

Fungus Amongus · Jan 24, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

I love being a necro.. but I hate redunancy in bone creatures.

I am totally with you on that one. If anything I would like it to be easier to distinguish Minions from Horrors. Sometimes I will use Feinds, Horrors, and Minions. IMO the Minions are better candidates for Death Nova so an easier way to identify them would be a plus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

[*]Minions + High Soul Reaping = Constant energy supply

Bingo. The initial investment of 25 energy looks expensive, but once you regen some of that energy, the payback from Soul Reaping seems infinite.

Poised · Jan 24, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Minions absolutely rock, but I too would love to see a different skin, undead scarabs would do fine :P

xenoranger · Jan 24, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

a buddy of mine has been playing Diablo 2 quite a bit. He's been telling me how you can use Skelemancing (Their Necros) to raise minions that are more powerful than you,but you can only have 1 at a time. (Golems I think he said they were)

Honestly, I'd like to be able to do more than animate bone _____. In Diablo 2, you can create skeleton sorcerers. It'd be interesting if you could animate minions or give them varying attributes (besides death nova and enchantments). Before you say that'd unbalance things, consider that you can only raise a single bone creature with a specific natural enchantment on it. I can see why they left it the way it is.. but just during PvE, it'd be fun to screw around using loads of different minion types. (Diablo 2 has roughly 6 unique ones from what I've been told).

Still...
I do enjoy the current model of Animate Bone _____ . I just think that it could seriously stand some improvements. And... what's up with Blood/Death Build? CUrses work better for creating minions, but you have Blood skills that make better usage of minons. I just don't get that one.

NeoSaber · Jan 24, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

I think back during the beta tests, bone minions did look like the scarab creatures in that icon. I remember fighting some Zombie Warlocks near the Hot Springs and suddenly being surrounded by a swarm of scarabs thinking "Where the hell did these things come from?!"

I have no idea why they may have changed into bone horrors though.

Caelus The Fallen · Jan 24, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Personally, i cant wait fot the chapter two elite skill "animate flesh golem"

Sereng Amaranth · Jan 24, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Animate Bone Dragon ftw

Nevin · Jan 24, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Yeah, all they gotta do, is take the scarabs, retexture and make a few gaps, make some bones show and they'd be fine.

Personally at first when I summoned a minion I was dissapointed it wasn't a zombie or something, but I've gotten used to it.

What I'd really like to summon, is one of those flesh golems from Ring of Fire

Lord Iowerth · Jan 24, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

And... what's up with Blood/Death Build? CUrses work better for creating minions, but you have Blood skills that make better usage of minons. I just don't get that one.

Blood in a MM build is usually for offering of blood. Offering = more energy = more minions. Also blood gives you the option of some siphons or vampiric spells, just incase you come under fire and you don't want your army to turn on your buddies.

I do think there should be some better Death magic elites, animate bone dragon would be very nice ... lol

Grimm · Jan 24, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

I use 16 death and 9 blood for Offering of blood. I don't normally need to use it, though, since I have 10 soul reaping.

To the person griping about minions (and using the terms for fiends, minions and horrors interchangebly making it very hard to read), 25 energy is not a problem if you're set up for minions. I mainly use Minions and Fiends constantly, and they both cost 25 energy.

And there will be elite minion: Flesh Golemn. It will leave an exploitable corpse.

Diablo™ · Jan 24, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sereng Amaranth

Animate Bone Dragon ftw

w00t .. that can be an Death Magic Elite! FTW!!

generik · Jan 24, 2006, 10:01 PM // 22:01

What some do is cast *tons* of minions, and death nova them

sun is in us · Jan 24, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoSaber

I think back during the beta tests, bone minions did look like the scarab creatures in that icon. I remember fighting some Zombie Warlocks near the Hot Springs and suddenly being surrounded by a swarm of scarabs thinking "Where the hell did these things come from?!"

I have no idea why they may have changed into bone horrors though.

Yea I remember they used to be like the picture.....much nicer as it was just that much more information when PVP'ing (not that there are many MM's in PVP anymore).

An early patch changed them into the crappy copy of Horrors they are now......

I can't understand the change either.....

xenoranger · Jan 24, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

woot woot.. Animate Bone Dragon!

gonna love that (if it's useful)

Nevin · Jan 25, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

I still MM in PvP, It farms faction.. If you know what you're doing with 3 minions you can over come any odds, It seems that I'm always turning the tables in my matches when my team dies, being able to survive with TOD and deal damage with bombs and horror/fiend raw attack. I've beaten 3 vs 1's before.. Good stuff.

Bone dragon would be beautiful, to make it harder to summon, have it sacrifice life and combine 2 horrors 1 fiend in order to summon it.